2020-07-17T16:00:07

Смотреть The Truth About Vinyl - Vinyl vs. Digital

Просмотров: 2 995 764 • 17.07.2020
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Writer: Seán McManus
Co-Director: Stephanie Sammann (https://www.stephanie-sammann.com/)
Co-Director: Mike Ridolfi (https://www.moboxgraphics.com/)
Sound: Graham Haerther (https://haerther.net/)
Thumbnail: Simon Buckmaster https://twitter.com/forgottentowel


References:

[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/technology-is-changing-the-way-americans-listen-to-music-2017-11
[2] http://blog.echonest.com/post/62248127937/the-loudness-war-is-real-and-we-can-prove-it-with
[3] https://thevinylfactory.com/news/record-vinyl-sales-usa-first-half-2018/
[4] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36027867
[5]https://web.archive.org/web/20060706192816/http://www.loe.ee.upatras.gr/Comes/Notes/Nyquist.pdf
[6]https://web.archive.org/web/20100208112344/http://www.stanford.edu/class/ee104/shannonpaper.pdf
[7]http://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/how.the.aes.began/aes_standard-playback-curve.pdf
'Disc Playback Characteristics', Wireless World, April 1956, p. 171.
[8]http://drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf
[9]http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-conference-proceedings.aspx?Id=7326
[10]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/25/pop-music-louder-less-acoustic
[11]https://web.archive.org/web/20100825003547/http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_big_squeeze/



Music by Epidemic Sound: http://epidemicsound.com/creator

Songs:
Future Yellow - Ooyy
Wear The Crown - Pure Indigo
A Nifty Piece Of Work - Anders Bothén
Sunday - Otis McDonald
Twenty Seconds Later (Instrumental Version) - Tommy Ljungberg

Thank you to my patreon supporters: Adam Flohr, Henning Basma, Karl Andersson, Mark Govea, Hank Green, William Leu, Jason A., Chris Plays Games, Tristan Edwards, Ken Coltan, Andrew McCorkell, Ian Dundore, John & Becki Johnston. Nevin Spoljaric, Jason Clark, Christopher Lam, Deven Warren Rathbun.

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Jack Dolan

Man that was a blast, Thank You! One GLARING ERROR though; there is nothing contained in the stylus counter-balance! All the magnetic jiggery-pokery is contained the the needle cartridge (or did I miss a few years of turntable evolution?)

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Don Payne

10:35 - what?

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Lars-Gunnar Grönvald

Vinyl is far better than CD. With a good player. I

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Paul Hetherington

MHINYLDZ-- Vectored increments, natural leftover, this! You lied, in encrypted-- <II TM> fx as, dx!
Two headed-- serial#s.

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Denis Vandale

I worked at an home entertainment store back in the day around the time that cd players and cd's became readily available. The owner of the store was very enthusiastic about the cd format, we, the sales people, who were also audiophiles thought differently. We set up a listening session at my house. I owned a very good hi-fi system. The boss "Ray" brought his best cd player and some audiophile cd's that matched the direct to disc albums that we, the audiophiles owned. One person would play the same music from both the vinyl and the cd and switch back and forth. The listening audience consisted of Ray the boss, 2 of the sales team and their wives. Pains were taken to make sure the volume was the same for both formats. The only question asked of each listener was "which one do like better?". Everyone, every time chose the vinyl, including Ray. Of course that was 50 years ago and things in the digital world probably have improved. I own a much better system now and no turntable. Digital is so much more convenient and my hearing at 76 is not what it used to be.

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normbarrows

CD quality digital doesn't capture harmonic overtones above 22.1Khz - cymbals lose brightness. Not everybody can hear this. Digital doesn't have turntable rumble. Lower sample rates and lossy compression (your typical mp3, YouTube music videos, etc) are inferior to both cd quality digital and vinyl.

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DaryxFox

0:30 Yikes! I wonder how many operators of that press had their hand crushed.

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Homesteader Workouts

And thus were Vinyl enthusiasts triggered. In a nutshell, don't get into vinyl because it "sounds better" or it sounds "warm" (whatever the fuck that means). It does not. Get into vinyl because you like the format and large booklets.

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Jimmy N13

Did I hear that right, he said first vinyl was 1948?!?

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DJ FX Kenya

streaming is lifeless, you don't feel any connection to the artist, it's like bubblegum throwaway

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Karl Magnus Knævelsrud

The question should be more like mp3 vs. anything else.

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Paulo Henrique

4:28 - What an abhorrently wrong piece of information, it ruined the entire video!

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D.B.

Dunno why people gave this video a thumbs down. I think it was pretty well made and explained in a solid, easy to understand way.

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Grant Lauzon

The volume war sounds like more of a car radio war to me.

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Kathleen Sarkeesian

Listening to Playbook Carti on vinyl would be a whole wave tho

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Bill Swinson

Unless the vinyl is direct-to-disk part of the recording process contains digital or hiss if the tape was recorded as analog.

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Stephen Walker

0:11 That needle is slammed. Nice tho.

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Max Husky

Edison didn't designed anything. He was a thief, a liar.

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Blender Wiki

Vinyl or CD? Boot boring I believe only in live music

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Dystopian63

yea, just ignore the nature of digital vs analog distortion. The perceivable differences for many are in that realm. Odd harmonic vs even harmonic distortion.

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Wallywutsizface

I buy records to support the artists and to have a physical copy of the music I like. I don’t care about how much better it sounds than digital

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Lohi Karhu

To me, vinyl is akin to a photographic negative, or transparency, in that they are almost immune to changes in technology, whereas digital music, and digital photography, need to be re-copied to new media, and/or new file formats, each 6-10 years...a photographic transparency, or print, stored properly, van last 100's of years, and viewed by the naked eye, or very simple optics. Audio from vinyl, similarly, could be reproduced with only a simple understanding of the modulation, by several means, ranging from the simple 'gramophone' needle and 'horn speaker', to non-destructive optical readout of the modulation...fortunately, so far, CDs are still readable, but, in 10 more years ???

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Terncote

Snaps, pops, crackle, rumble, wow, skips and limited dynamics VS flawless reproduction of the original with enormous dynamics.

Why are we still discussing this like it's a contest. Digital is better. If you prefer vinyl for sentimental reasons, good for you, just don't try to tell anyone with a brain and ears that it's better.

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daDragon1337

This Chanel is quality content :)

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Transit Times

Vinyl is better, such as if your phone dies, I for one like to hold something and put it away.

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Jeff Schrepfer

5:10. This video lost all credibility by perpetuating the myth of the stairstep waveform. No D to A converter anywhere, ever, gives a stairstep output. It’s a myth and it is wrong.

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Eric Freytag

The graphic showing how the stylus picks up sound is complete bullshit. The copper wire coil is very tiny and lives right on the phono head with the needle. The cylinder at the back of the arm is just a counterweight so the needle doesn't damage the record by pressing down on it too hard and didn't even exist on most low-end record players back in the day.

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M Z

1:14 The time line is numbered: ... 2006 2009 2008 2009... I did a double take when I saw this.

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Manuel BR

Really interesting! I understand your point and it's logic but I really don't know why I hear better the vinil than CD's sound

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Tim Holst Petersen

I bought a 1-bit Luxman CD player in 1992 (the one with tubes) together with my Luxman LV-105u amplifier. This was a quite expensive CD player at the time... about 10.00 kroners, or 1.500+ dollars. It had a problem though; when I played the Sibelius violin concerto, it would often sound like a figure skater... very clearly (!!) when the violinist set the bow to the strings... as if the digitalisation did something, or couldn't cope. I had the same recording on LP (Thorens 318) which did not have that problem. I found that the problem was not only present with the Sibelius concerto but with almost all (not all) CD's... even after I exchanged my CD player with another. Didn't help. It MAY be due to my amplifier somehow, the Luxman LV-105u, which is purely an analog integrated amplifier, also with tubes. I don't know.
Apart from that... I personally think my vinyl has a lot more depth and life... vibrance I guess... but I suppose this is subjective.

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TheCassiusTain

I don't care, nobody can take this little scratching noise from a vinyl player as the needle touches down and the first track is about to start away from me. this is just pure bliss

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Alexander Schneider

holy fuck. what an awesome video design! Good Job!

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Karl Moltzan

You did n8t metion harmonics. Digital equipment does n8 reproduse the harmontcs ab8ve 20khz and lower than 20hz which the ear can not detect, but we feel. I remember when cds came out I could tell the difference. Pink Floyd was never as good on digital as on vinal. The digital sample rate for the standard is too low. The compression techniques used today are junk. I remember Analog system boasted frequency repruduction of 0 -100hz. Today the digital is limited to 20hz - 20khz. That can never be the same. The best listening experience of all is a live performce in a concert hall with no electronics at all with. Alnalog live amplified performances are the second best.

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Daniel Erdman

Digital music is like lean meat and potatoes, without salt or any spices.
Something is missing, and just doesn’t make your mouth water !
Godspeed.

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Paul Topace

I hate this condescending logic in videos like this one. 44khz sampling is crappy. listening to voice recordings you could not tell a difference but listening to rich music productions. CD quality falls below analogue. I will do my own video soon showing why digital falls short. It's nothing to do with nostalgia idiot.
In the 90's the remaining recording studios had multi track digital recorders sitting in the corner unused because the sound quality was shit. Unfortunately mastering to digital tape became standard. So vinyl records pressed after about 1982 in America or 1988 in Australia sound as bad as a CD.

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rwfrench66

First of all, the comments here are all awesome! I know there's all kinds of science to be debated, but Dark Side of The Moon and Aja are the gold standard for pop music and when CD's first came out those were pretty much the first two CD's people bought and they didn't sound as good to me. The thing is, I'm 54 years old and I've bought the same song on 45's, 33's, cassettes, CD's, and MP3 downloads and also purchased multiple pieces of hardware to play those songs on those formats. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars on the same songs over the past 40 years when you add up the music and the players and it's the same songs the record companies are selling me! If you buy a 1955 Chevy you have to pay for insurance, repairs and gas but you don't have to pay for the car again every time you buy a new tank of gas! People get caught up in the analog vs digital debate, Apple vs Microsoft, but they don't stop to realize they bought the same song five times and bought five different players to play those songs, not to mention replacing songs that were worn out, stolen, deleted, or players that had to be repaired or replaced.

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The Swartz

You are simply wrong about how digital is decoded by the DAC. Through the algorithms (based on Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem), the output is NOT "jaggy". Using the theorem, the original waveforms are re-created (minus the filter of course). In fact, NO amplifier can play a "jaggy" wave form. It's simply not possible (darn physics...)

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The Swartz

Nothing recorded in the past few decades were ever mastered to be on vinyl in the first place. Worse, many original masters for older stuff have been lost. So, in the end, buying records "now" really doesn't make any sense, and is just a way for record companies to take more of your money.

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Today on the Bench

44KHz sampling rather is actually rather low.
And the Nyquist limit is the minimum needed to sample a sine wave if the samples have infinite resolution. (and there is a few more caveats too.)
In practice, one needs to sample at about twice the Nyquist limit to accurately reproduce a given bandwidth. Ie, about 80 kHz sample rate for sound. CD's use 44 kHz as a very rough compromise. But some audio recordings use 48 kHz, I though prefer the 96 kHz standard, and I record at 192 kHz just to have more processing room, but this is not remotely needed for the final audio file.

Though, the main thing making "Digital" sound worse is the loudness wars that some studios foolishly partake in.
Mix the music correctly, don't overuse compressors, and please don't stack compressors on each other... It doesn't do more than muddle the sound.
It becomes even worse if it peaks.

One should also take into consideration the dynamic range and bandwidth of each format.
Digital is frankly only held back by real world limitations. Like ADC/DAC, storage space and bandwidth, processing and file compression.
And in the world of audio processing, digital frankly is having higher quality. (Analog's only advantage here is for live concerts where analog audio effects racks typically exhibit lower latency than digital ones. But latency is only a problem if it gets above 20-50 ms. (Though, some digital effects racks adds a "nice" 5-10 ms of latency... So you don't need more than an EQ, Gate and compressor on top of the digital mixer to start effecting the tightness of the performers (if they use monitors to hear each other), though some digital mixers have 0.1 seconds of latency or more.... But good quality digital gear has no appreciable latency. (sub 1 ms)))

The main reason digital is held back by real world constraints is because we can always just toss in more samples per second at higher resolution. (requires a better ADC and DAC)
In the processing side of things, a lot of audio processing is done with 32 bit variables, despite few ADC being able to record better than 24 bits. The reason for the extra 8 bits is to leave room for rounding errors from the signal processing. Since the DACs used are typically either 16 or 24 bit, then these extra 8 to 16 bits of data will hide away the processing noise. And if we intend on doing a lot of processing, we can always use 64 bit variables instead, leaving us a lot more room for that noise.

We can also increase sampling rates, but anything above 96 kHz is overkill since it doesn't add any useful fidelity, but it too can make signal processing a bit clearer, so some programs goes to 384 kHz for audio processing. Though, with more samples per second, our processor will have more stuff to do in a given amount of time, thereby increasing the demand for processing power. And this is another constraint, and all though relatively easy one to fix.

In the analog world on the other hand, a given piece of gear will have a certain amount of noise inherent in it, and that noise will be added to the noise already in your input signal. This will gently stack as you add more processing. But its not common to have tens of effects stringed up in series, so this isn't usually going to be "noticeable". But in comparison to digital processing, analog is a lot more noisy.

This is though just scratching the surface.
I myself generally pick analog for live performances, and digital for the studio and my own day to day listening.

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jonnymada

vinyl is a ceremony, cd less so, streaming not at all. If you buy a record with hard cash, spend time looking at the physicality of it, you give it more time to appreciate. If someone gives you a memory stick with the entire life works of bob dylan or whoever, great put it on the shelf and get back to it. Buy a record every now and then when its released, theres excitement and you invest. Simple as. Oh an vinyl doesnt have a brick wall filter at 20k There is air in a record, styluses slowly roll off all the way to 50k

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Sailing & Sharing Life

Absolutely wrong at point 04:30 to 04:40. It shows a coil in what is actually the counterbalance weight of the tone arm !!!

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Simon Morgan Dean Taylor

I believe for the average person you can't hear a difference between vinyl and cd but they're a few people with heightened senses e.g a blind person maybe more sensitive to sound who can tell the difference and prefer vinyl. Sometimes it may not even be how it sounds but how it makes you feel, I find vinyl holds so much more emotion to it where as digital can feel a bit cold

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Rondo Cat

The problem with CD is the 44Khz sampling frequency, go up to 96 and it sounds perfect to me and just going up to 48Khz help a lot....

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OMCSY

We cannot hear the difference but maybe if we heard the elements digital and analog in fabric room 1 or ministry of sound you will be able to feel the difference?

Ps I think digital sounds sound deeper and wider than pressing it on vinyl?

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Tom Talks

to all the people who are saying that because he got the cartridge/counterbalance graphic wrong and that somehow undermines everything else said and removes all authority, No. No it does not. did he screw up on a technical detail? Yes. Does it invalidate all the math studies, science, history, and logistics of everything else just because the counterbalance was confused with the cartridge? Nope. if you say 99 true things and one wrong thing, that doesnt automatically invalidate the truth of the other 99 statements, or the 'authority' of the presenter. people are human, and were allowed to make some mistakes as long as they are minor enough to not impact the argument in any meaningful way or corrupt future points. get your heads out of your asses.

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Angus Macangus

No, vinyl is not superior in terms of pure audio fidelity. But in terms of the overall experience of music which includes all the human senses and then some ...

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crusherbmx

I think this nails it. I've recorded LPs onto cassettes and into digital, it transfers pretty good and I prefer that to the original cassette or CD, but not always. Certain music just sounds better if it was originally made for vinyl, but of course, music is subjective.

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HyperCynic

I've never really understood how anybody can act like vinyl is somehow "superior" to digital in quality. I mean, I have a decent collection of vinyl and I love listening to it, but it's because of the way I go about enjoying the process of listening to music when I decide to put on a record that makes me more connected with the music in the moment. I always have all distractions turned off and I just enjoy the music by itself.
Anybody who listens to EDM, metal or hip hop knows how bad the bass is on vinyl compared to on a nice digital setup I would think though. I still remember how much I realized the difference in bass quality when I got 4x4=12 by Deadmau5. Phenomenal record too.

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Brad Mahoney

Your depiction of how digital can actually re-create an accurate analog signal is very good, but you need to pay attention to the details of how a record player works if you’re going to remain credible. In your graphic on how the needle reads horizontal, vertical and two channel modulation, you show the vibration being sensed in the base of the tonearm. This is fundamentally inaccurate. The base of the tonearm is usually nothing more than a counterweight to balance out the weight of the tonearm. There is nothing in it that senses anything related to the audio signal. The audio is sensed by the cartridge that sits at the end of the tonearm with the needle coming out of it. One can only imagine how much of the rest of your discussion is in accurate considering you have such a basic thing wrong.

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Sky Hernandez

In general most people don't use a high enough quality amplification system to really know the significant differences, but hats off to those that do! Also, I would wager that 99% of modern Vinyls are actually mixed from a digital source, since virtually all music is recorded digitally (but I do not have a source to cite). There are some exceptions of bands recording to tape.
Couple notes: Data Compression (e.g. lossy mp3 format) is not the same as dynamic range compression (process of normalizing quite and loud sections). Interesting fact, since vinyls travel at a set speed, there is actually a slight loss in fidelity as you reach the center due to the lower linear speed (but I do not have enough information to say if this is outside of the 20,000hz range). In many instances, people play vinyls with poor quality styluses or record players which automatically reduces the quality--but of course high quality devices do exist. And I guess this would be similar to streaming compressed audio from spotify. Personally because they both start from a digital mix, and with the difficulties of vinyl, I prefer CD quality digital. But I can understand the charm of vinyl. I would also close by saying if they both start from the same source, CD continues to be identical digitally to the source while vinyl can only go do hill as it's transmitted through the stylus, additional playbacks, etc.

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